Tyler K. Gordon: 0:02

But what I was going to say is like ultimately, I want to push back on something that you said was this is a gospel of second chances and just because you've had one chance here on this earth, who knows what that looks like in the spirit world and you kind of that's kind of what you were saying is is, we don't really know what that means, but if we recognize, the atonement is there for us to accept, and if we accept it now, it's the parable of the laborers, right? Whether we accept it at 6 am or in the 11th hour, like that's the important thing to recognize. Hello everyone and welcome back to the From Grace to Grace podcast. My name is Tyler Gordon and I'm here with Sam Binns and we are just super excited to be back. I know it's been a minute, but we're also excited to be back with you for this episode of the podcast.

Tyler K. Gordon: 1:03

Today we're going to be talking about the afterlife waiting room, specifically what happens after death, kind of exploring that aspect of the plan of salvation. I think this is one of those things that is maybe number one question when it comes to the plan of salvation, because it's like what's next? Right, I know what I'm doing here. But what comes next? And I think it can be maybe a scary part for a lot of people who might not know about the plan of salvation. So I'm excited to explore this topic with you, Sam, but before we jump into that, how are you doing what's new?

Sam Binns: 1:39

I'm just close to moving down to Provo, but I'll still be back for the next season, so we'll be looking forward to that. But I'll be going to school for a little bit and losing myself to the books.

Tyler K. Gordon: 1:52

We love that though. School's great and we're super excited for you to go down there and fully support you in doing that. But, as Sam kind of alluded to, we've already started some work on season two and we're excited to get into that. I think I think season two episodes are going to be just just a gem is what I'm going to say. I think that they're going to be great, so I'm excited for that. Any anything else new just going down to BYU? Yeah, that's about it.

Tyler K. Gordon: 2:19

Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think there's not really much else different in my life either. It's kind of funny when you get to adulthood you get to like a certain like level and then things just kind of remain steady for a long period of time and it's. It's not a bad thing, it's just a thing. So, but yeah, no, not much different in my life, just been. I mean, I guess serving on the high council has been super busy in my life. That's just been a thing I've been doing, so that's always, it's always fun, but a busy time, so cool. Do we want to just jump into the episode? Get started talking about the afterlife waiting room? What? Where do you want to start? Where do you want to go?

Sam Binns: 2:59

Well, I just wanted to go through piece by piece. So we start with death. However, however you go from this life, we hope it's not painful, but either way, the place that we go next is what we're talking about today. So, in between the time between our death and the resurrection, we go to a place called the spirit world, or rather, we enter a place called the spirit world. We don't really go anywhere, we're still on this earth. Enter a place called the spirit world. We don't really go anywhere, we're still on this earth.

Sam Binns: 3:28

There's a quote from Brigham Young who talks about where are you going when you die? And he says into the spiritual world. He says are you going into Abraham's bosom? No, not anywhere nigh there, but into the spirit world. Where is the spirit world? It is right here. Do the good and evil spirits go together? Yes, they do. Do they both inhabit one kingdom? Yes, they do. Do they go to the sun? No, do they go beyond the boundaries of the organized earth? No, they do not. They are brought forth upon this earth. So the location of the spirit world is around us right now. It's not anywhere. Like you know, we're not talking Kolob or anything like that. So Can I?

Tyler K. Gordon: 4:05

can I take a pause and almost can we take a step back back to talking about? I mean, I don't want to stay on this topic for a long time, but talking about death, because death, death is such like such a I don't want to, I don't want to say important, but it is like an important step in terms of the plan of salvation. You know, as Latter-day Saints we have this knowledge of the plan of salvation. I don't know, how has the plan of salvation helped you kind of come to terms with this idea of death or like seeing like someone around you maybe pass away? How does the plan of salvation bring you comfort or what particularly does it help you with?

Sam Binns: 4:48

Well, the best part about it is that there's no permanence to death anymore. So they are gone for a time, but it's like they're just living in a different country for a long time and you don't have cell service to them or something like that. Right, they're not far.

Tyler K. Gordon: 5:04

And I think that's one of the things that for us in this life, it's nice to know what's going to happen to us, what comes next for us, but it's also nice to know what is happening for my loved ones who have passed away or someone close to me who was a good friend who's passed away.

Tyler K. Gordon: 5:23

I think just having this solid foundation of the plan of salvation, in whatever form you may believe in it, I think it gives you a way of coping with losing loved ones to death and being able to deal with that on a more I don't know be more at peace with it. At least I've found that in my own personal life. I've been able to find that knowing the plan of salvation, studying the plan of salvation, has brought me more peace and comfort when I do lose someone that I love, and being able to do their work in the temple and things like that makes me feel connected to them, which is also a really cool thing about the gospel of Jesus Christ. So anyway, sorry, I just wanted to touch on that for a second, but let's continue talking about the spirit world. You were saying that the spirit world inhabits this earth. That's kind of a crazy thought. So talk to me kind of about that. What does that mean for us here now?

Sam Binns: 6:37

The first thing it means is that our family members are close at hand and we're still able to have interactions with them, in whatever form that takes, however that happens for you. Some people can say sometimes that they feel like they felt their grandmother's presence with them. Or sometimes somebody will say oh, I heard my father's voice the other day. And things like that aren't out of possibility, especially with the doctrine that the spirit world is here and not far away in the universe.

Tyler K. Gordon: 7:13

So for those individuals who have passed on and are in this spirit world, do we know anything of what they're experiencing? What does the day-to-day look like? What do you do?

Sam Binns: 7:28

So this will take a little bit of explanation. So before Christ was crucified and resurrected, there was a separation, essentially between the righteous and the unrighteous, or those in spirit paradise, and spirit prison, as we term it, and that distinction between the two was a separation. I don't know if it was a physical separation or if it was just a like they were unable to preach to them or anything like that, but the separation meant that those righteous spirits couldn't preach to those who had never heard the gospel, things like that. Until we get in that very end of the Doctrine and Covenants, we get an explanation, I believe from Joseph Fielding Smith, about a vision of the spirit world and the events that happened in those three days between Christ's death and resurrection.

Sam Binns: 8:26

And when Christ appears in the spirit world, everybody's rejoicing that he's just accomplished the atonement and he organizes his followers, so people going from Adam and Eve down through Moses and all of these righteous spirits that he's had through the ages. He commissions them all to go and start missionary work to those who are in quote-unquote spirit prison. That place is now open to them because of what Christ has accomplished, and so nowadays that area of the spirit world isn't locked off and those who are righteous. When they perish, they go and they essentially begin a mission. They start missionary work in the spirit world, preaching the gospel of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repentance, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, vicarious reception of the Holy Ghost and enduring to the end. And so they get those same principles, it's just they don't have a body anymore, so they can't receive ordinances which are necessary for them.

Tyler K. Gordon: 9:39

So you're talking about these places of spirit paradise and spirit prison. Talking about these places of spirit paradise and spirit prison, would it be unfounded to say that? Because the way that I at least, view spirit paradise and spirit prison is not necessarily a physical location, but maybe more of like a mental location. And so I think, even in this life where we are right now, we can experience spirit paradise in quotation marks right and spirit prison, just depending on our actions. Even our own actions can bog us down and make us prisoners to addiction or different types of temptations. And so I think I don't know, does that even make sense to you?

Sam Binns: 10:29

As far as the location itself, I don't.

Sam Binns: 10:30

I personally I don't think there's a like, a separate, like the righteous are in the Northern hemisphere and the unrighteous are in the Southern hemisphere, like that's just not how, how it works and that just seems ludicrous.

Sam Binns: 10:40

But the spiritual separation, I think, is what's more important there. And especially, I think, when Christ goes if you read that section in the Doctrine and Covenants I believe it's 138, he commissions them to teach. I think before then they hadn't had that commission from him, so they simply didn't have the call or the authority to do so. Authority to do so, for example, the missionaries who go out nowadays they get a call and are set apart to that calling to go and preach the gospel and baptize, and before they do that they can share the gospel. But they're not the ones who are commissioned with that authority. So I'm not sure what form that would take in the spirit world, but at least I know this. Christ commissioned them and then the missionary work started. So it's a very similar thing to how the authority in the church works today is somebody has to be called before they're able to perform a particular function, with a ratifying seal of approval from God.

Tyler K. Gordon: 11:44

So let me ask you this you die and you go to this spirit world. Is there some sort of preliminary judgment to determine like, oh, you're in spirit paradise or spirit prison, or how does that work? Like, does that? Do we have some sort of judgment, or that we know?

Sam Binns: 12:03

of the closest I would think of is Alma 40. So that's the famous chapter that explains in pretty clear detail about the spirit world existing. So if you go down in Alma 40 to verse 11, it says Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body yea, the spirits of all men. There's some discussion on what that phrase, taken home to God, to God who gave them life, means.

Tyler K. Gordon: 12:39

Wouldn't the reversal of the fall necessitate a return to God in some sort of way? And maybe that's final judgment, but there needs to be some sort of returning to God at some point so that the spiritual effects of being cut off from God is realized, I suppose.

Sam Binns: 13:03

So in Alma 40, verse 11, that's where that phrase is, and in the Book of Mormon student manual you have a explanation from Joseph Fielding Smith, as well as President George Q Cannon about that phrase. So Joseph Fielding Smith explains that Alma did not necessarily mean that we are brought back into God's presence. These words of Alma, as I understand them this is him speaking do not intend to convey the thought that all spirits go back into the presence of God for an assignment to the place of peace or a place of punishment and before him receive their individual sentence. Taken home to God simply means that their mortal existence has come to an end and they have returned to the world of spirits where they are assigned to a place according to their works, with the just or with the unjust. Back there to await the resurrection.

Sam Binns: 13:53

Back to God is a phrase which finds an equivalent in many other well-known conditions. For instance, a man spends a stated time in some foreign mission field. When he is released and returns to the United States, he may say it is wonderful to be back home. Yet his home may be somewhere in Utah or Idaho or some other part of the West. President George Q Cannon's explanation he says this does not intend to convey the idea that they are immediately ushered into the personal presence of God. He evidently uses that phrase in a qualified sense. So at least as far as your question of what kind of preliminary judgment is happening, it said at least Joseph Fielding Smith said there works. So there is some small judgment at least of placing them in that condition. And I'd say the main condition is those who repent and are baptized receive the Holy Ghost. They are in the state of spirit paradise.

Tyler K. Gordon: 14:50

And ultimately we place ourselves in that position because ultimately it's based off of our choices and we get to choose ultimately where we want to go, based off of our choices right here and now. So I further think, I don't know. I think that those quotes are are interesting and, as, like Joseph Fielding Smith said, he specifically was saying it kind of sounded like he was talking in his opinion, so there could be different interpretations of what Alma's trying to say there. Who really knows, except for God?

Sam Binns: 15:27

I mean.

Tyler K. Gordon: 15:27

God knows the plan from start to finish.

Sam Binns: 15:31

Well, as far as I can tell, until we receive our judgment to be able to be placed in the celestial kingdom, we're not in the presence of God yet, sure.

Tyler K. Gordon: 15:46

Well, and what does it mean to be in the presence of?

Sam Binns: 15:47

God. There is the question too of if it's separated spiritual and physical presence as well. Yeah, that physical presence, like Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, or spiritual presence same thing, or spiritual presence same thing, but, for example, being completely worthy to be in his presence and having that connection to him, because I would make the argument that almost every day, if you're reading your scriptures, if you're praying, if you have the Holy Ghost with you, you are, in a sense, in the presence of God.

Tyler K. Gordon: 16:20

The Holy Ghost is part of the Godhead. Yeah, I wouldn't even say in a sense you are so if you are doing those things that you need to like, even here on earth, you can be in the presence of God because of the Holy Ghost that's something that I want to touch on is the being in the spiritual presence of God is something that's attainable in this life.

Sam Binns: 16:40

That's the whole point of the redemption through Jesus Christ and the sanctification from the Holy Ghost. And that purpose of receiving the Holy Ghost, baptism, all of those things, those ordinances and those covenants and repentance that we do, all of those things are the receipt, I guess, of Christ's atonement bringing us back into the spiritual presence of God, because that's the first thing of what he was fixing with.

Tyler K. Gordon: 17:12

the atonement was spiritual death, and that's the separation from the presence of God, and then physical death of course we're going to get to that with the resurrection episode, death when we're cut off from the presence of God because of our own actions.

Tyler K. Gordon: 17:42

There's nothing that we can do except return to Jesus Christ to be able to overcome that. And I think that's why it's so important to recognize that here early on, because then, you know, I don't think that there's this massive like change, other than change when you die, other than you're no longer embodied in a physical body. You're still yourself, you're still your same thoughts, your same feelings, your same ideas. I don't think that the spirit world is honestly very different from what we're doing right here right now. And so if you form good habits right here, right now, when you go to that spirit world, whatever the difference may be, you're still going to have those good habits and that knowledge that you take with you. That's really the only thing you get to take with you is your knowledge of the gospel, your love for Jesus Christ and your ordinances that you've performed, hopefully, before you've passed away. Those are the things that you get to take with you. Everything else sorry, it's all going to be left here.

Sam Binns: 18:57

And that's actually explained by Alma as well in, I believe, 40 to 42 in Alma 40. He explains that to Corianton as well, and so you're spot on. Then, as far as the rest of Alma 40 that I was reading, it says and then shall it come to pass that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care and sorrow. Sounds great, I'd like to be there.

Sam Binns: 19:29

And then shall it come to pass that the spirits of the wicked yea, who are evil, for behold, they have no part nor portion of the spirit of the Lord? We're going to pause there. That's the difference is those who are able to have the Spirit of the Lord with them. And so if you're repenting every day, if you're striving to be better every day, you're going to have the Spirit with you, because that's a mark of the justification and sanctification that's happening with the Holy Ghost there constantly. So if you're turning, if you're facing Christ and you're making even the smallest progression towards him, that's what this is talking about. And then it says I saw you had a thought upon them. Thus, they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection. I saw you had a thought.

Tyler K. Gordon: 20:45

I just just the thought of. You know, outer darkness is a loaded word here. It he's not talking I. I don't think this really needs to be clarified, but I want to clarify it just in case I. He's not talking about outer darkness. Outer darkness he's talking just about likeation, being stuck in this state of spirit prison, which ultimately is our own choices, right?

Tyler K. Gordon: 21:10

I tapped on outer darkness because I was like oh, that's an interesting wording there, because we use outer darkness as something completely different than spirit prison. And even those who experienced spirit prison, the chances of them experiencing outer darkness is, as far as I'm aware, not very likely. So it's just a loaded word there. The stuff it links to in the gospel library app is damnation. The gospel library app is damnation, darkness, hell, like things like that. So I also was just thinking about you know, we even here experience those things of spiritual prison being fearful of the second coming right, of the return of God to the earth, and which we shouldn't be afraid of We'll get there, of God to the earth which we shouldn't be afraid of.

Tyler K. Gordon: 22:03

We'll get there, right, we shouldn't be, but I mean, naturally people are. And I love that we've talked about this, because something you said last night about that we'll talk about.

Sam Binns: 22:12

Okay, well, we're getting there today.

Tyler K. Gordon: 22:13

We're going to record that episode today when we get to that episode. So stay tuned. A little bit of a teaser there, but I just wanted to say that you know, even in our own mortal states, we put ourselves in these situations where we are potentially fearful.

Sam Binns: 22:31

And then, as we're going on here, I wanted to talk about as well the evolution of the knowledge of the spirit world as we started in the early years of the Restoration. Joseph Smith really fleshed out a lot of this in those later years, in Nauvoo, with the vicarious work for baptisms for the dead, for example, is one of the things that he started teaching and started clarifying and getting more information about, and you can read all of that Again. Really, if you want to know how the church functions in a lot of the main doctrines, go to the Doctrine and Covenants. You'll get probably 90% of what we believe. It's just a treasure trove. Anyway, joseph Smith fleshes out baptism for the dead, vicarious work for the dead, for the purpose of giving them the chance to accept the gospel in its fullness at least, as the phrasing I'll use is. They're making full use of the doctrine of Christ to accept Christ's atonement, and that's done through faith, repentance, vicarious baptisms and vicarious reception of the Holy Ghost for and in behalf of them.

Tyler K. Gordon: 23:47

I think that's something that's important to recognize. Here is Joseph when, before work for the dead started right, he saw Alvin in the celestial Kingdom and I think that's one of those things that can bring us all hope. Alvin obviously didn't live to see the full restoration of the church. He wasn't around for baptism, he wasn't around for the endowment.

Sam Binns: 24:14

He wasn't around for the publication of the Book of Mormon.

Tyler K. Gordon: 24:16

Right, and so I think that can bring us all a lot of comfort for our relatives who might not be members of the church. Even Alvin who's this amazing spirit? He was able to be seen in that celestial kingdom and I think it comes down to well, it comes back to the work for the dead. People can accept that in the next life and I think that's another important distinction, maybe for people who might not believe in our religious traditions. I think it's important to recognize that the people on the other side can choose to accept that work or they don't have to. It's not like you've been baptized, you now have to join the church.

Sam Binns: 25:14

I think it's just a. It's an option Jewish descent, and he explained it this way. He said we believe that there's like, in essence, there's a banquet party at the end of time. I don't know what phrasing he used, but there's a banquet party. We believe it's everybody's right to be invited, but you don't have to come, and that's what temple work is doing in any of the ordinances.

Tyler K. Gordon: 25:43

And I think, ultimately, it allows you to choose whether you want to be in spirit, paradise or prison, and that's the work that allows you to choose to be freed from that prison that you may be feeling. So it's the same work that's going on on the earth. You can choose to be baptized now and it'll free you from the feeling of guilt, from your sins and things like that.

Sam Binns: 26:11

And the reason it frees you is not because of the baptism itself, but, again, it's Christ, right, jesus Christ has placed that requirement for receiving forgiveness is repent, be baptized. All of that, right. It's all symbols of Christ, right, it's all symbolic. Paul explains it as the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. You go under the water, you die, you come up a new creature. So there's some of that.

Sam Binns: 26:42

The next thing I'd like to talk about is with the ordinances and the repentance that's available to them.

Sam Binns: 26:49

First and foremost, if you had full knowledge, for example and whatever that looks like, we don't know but if you had full knowledge of the gospel and still chose to reject it, of course you're not going to get a second chance.

Sam Binns: 27:01

People get their chance and then they can accept or reject. And, of course is a chance. A lifetime Is a chance, a lifetime and a half with the spirit world who knows? Yeah, but you get a chance, no matter if you never heard about it, and that's, of course, the easier thing to say is those who've never heard about it. The random person in history who's never gotten the opportunity to hear about Christ or you know, was living in some portion of the world that just does not have connection with any other part of the world. They get that chance. They still do, and that's one of the most merciful things about this portion of the plan of salvation is that everybody still gets their chance, even if they miss it and quote unquote, miss it here on earth and I think, I think that's the other thing to recognize is who's who's to say like, because that's christ who's to say is christ right?

Tyler K. Gordon: 27:57

but what I going to say is like ultimately, I want to push back on something that you said was this is a gospel of second chances and just because you've had one chance here on this earth, who knows what that looks like in the spirit world and you kind of that's kind of what you were saying is is we don't really know what that means, but if we recognize, the atonement is there for us to accept and if we accept it now, it's the parable of the laborers right, whether we accept it at 6 am or in the 11th hour. That's the important thing to recognize here.

Sam Binns: 28:35

And there is some thoughts, I think from Bruce R McConkie and of course it's Bruce R McConkie, but he explains how those who accept it in the spirit world are still going to be receiving terrestrial glory rather than celestial glory, which is something that I feel like we could get some more revelation on that later on. Maybe he's wrong, but as far as repentance goes, and repentance from your sins, suffering for sins, if you remember D&C 19, 18, 19, where Christ explains that eternal punishment is God's punishment and it has an end, the suffering for sins happens before the judgment happens. So I'm assuming, at least in Sam's understanding, is all of that suffering happens in the spirit world and then when you are resurrected, you are judged and then placed in your particular glory and the suffering for sins has already happened. That's over. Christ's suffering is finished, and so the only way I can understand our suffering is that that also has an end, if, of course, you don't repent in this life. But if you are repenting in this life, you're spirit paradise. You don't have to worry about that.

Tyler K. Gordon: 30:02

And from what I understand is, ultimately repentance is going to be based on what you know, and so if your repentance is based on what you know, it might not look exactly as laid out by the church. It's going to be based on you as an individual because ultimately the plan of salvation isn't a one size fits all kind of plan. It's very individualized for what you're going to go through and what you're going to experience and and all of those different things. There is something to be said there. There must be something about having a body that makes it easier to repent and to receive forgiveness. There is something about this life that makes it easier. Now, who's to say? Like we really don't know what repentance looks like in the next life? But I will say it's got to be easier in this life, otherwise there wouldn't be a point to it in this life. Could it happen in the next life? Sure, who am I to say? But I think it's important to recognize that this is the time to prepare to meet God this life.

Sam Binns: 31:16

And the main thing is, God has this time prepared that is, the fail-safe, the net to catch those who fall through the cracks per se. But this life is what he prepared for our testing, our growth, our repentance and our salvation and exaltation.

Tyler K. Gordon: 31:36

Yeah, I think it's interesting because everybody's journey is going to be different and for the vast majority of individuals, they are not going to hear about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as far as I'm aware. We're a very small percentage of a large religious body on the earth currently. Today, we are the yeast that leavens the lump ultimately. But what I'm saying here is the spirit world is going to be just a great place for missionary work, for us to be able to share the gospel and to be able to allow people to accept those ordinances that have been done. So again, I think it comes back to the plan of salvation. The spirit world. It's all a journey. We're all on a journey right now, and just because someone in this life didn't accept the gospel doesn't mean that it can't happen or it won't happen. Alvin was seen in the celestial kingdom, so cool. Anything else that you want to go over?

Sam Binns: 32:44

As far as spirit world. I think that's about it. Okay, everything else will be covered with resurrection slash, judgment and the. Well, yeah, there's the. Do we have it separated? Where it's resurrection, then judgment, then I think we have Yep, resurrection slash second coming and then, and then judgment day, or actually judgment day could be resurrection. We'll figure it out, yeah, we'll figure it out, yeah we'll figure it out, we'll divide it.

Sam Binns: 33:13

However we like Resurrection could fall under either one. Yeah so. But as for Spirit World, I think we've covered all of the main topics I wanted to get to, and the main thing for all of this is if, like I'm sure, I've said something or explained something that maybe isn't totally correct, I may have misspoken things like that or, you know, maybe quoting Bruce R McConkie was the wrong thing to do.

Tyler K. Gordon: 33:40

I don't know, but I think I think it's important to recognize that and we have this disclaimer on our website, but I think it's important to put in the episode as well that we obviously don't speak for the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We don't represent the views of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We have our own opinions and we share those and we share some things that the church has maybe shared. But again, I think it's important to recognize that we are sharing our opinions on things and you should formulate your own opinions, you should pray about it and see where God takes you.

Sam Binns: 34:13

Then as well actually I had a thought come to mind the Kirtland Temple and reception of the keys of the kingdom, of particular keys for the gathering of Israel, sealing keys, missionary work keys, and then I guess missionary work, slash ordinance, work for the dead Right Are the three things.

Sam Binns: 34:37

And so Elijah coming that's important to talk about here in the Spirit World episode came to visit in the Kirtland Temple. He gave Joseph Smith particular keys to be able to enact work for the dead in this generation, and that was something that of course we look at Malachi 4, where it talks about Elijah coming back, and we have some Joseph Smith translation of that, we have some just other. I guess if you read different translations of the Bible as well, you can get different meanings, but we interpret it at least to be Elijah is going to come back and he is going to turn, as the phrase, at least in King James language, is turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the children to their fathers, lest the earth be smitten with a curse. That curse would be a human family that is not sealed together and bound together in covenant. And so in essence it's a dual mission between Elias and Elijah to get sealing and missionary work, slash ordinance work for the dead done so.

Tyler K. Gordon: 35:48

I was just thinking I'm, I'm almost I'm in the Nauvoo part of rough stone rolling, um, because I want to like finish the whole thing before I go to Nauvoo and we're getting it's like 1843 and we're getting really close to Carthage and it always makes me so sad.

Sam Binns: 36:06

Whenever?

Tyler K. Gordon: 36:06

whenever I hit 1843, I'm like oh no, I know what's coming, I know what's next and I don't like it. So anyway, sorry, that was just a random thought that I was thinking about. Anyway, we can wrap up this episode if you're feeling good about it.

Sam Binns: 36:20

I'm good, okay. Thank you for listening to the From Grace to Grace podcast. We're glad you listened today. We hope that you were able to learn some things, hopefully get some new questions in your head, to start digging through the mountain that is Gospel Library, as well as through, I don't know, your local Deseret book, as well as just general conference talks. I think we do ourselves a disservice sometimes in saying study the scriptures but also include general conference in that, so, but I think anyway, that's everything I have to say. Glad that you were here today. Hope you have some good questions. Go, start studying some more. We hope that you were able to feel some more hope today as well, and to remember, as always, christ and his atonement Agreed.

Tyler K. Gordon: 37:11

Great episode Bye.