Jeffrey Field: 0:02

and I think it's important that we turn ministering into a more personal effort, not just for the person who you're speaking to, not just for the person you're ministering to, but also for yourself.

Tyler K. Gordon: 0:19

Hello and welcome everyone to the From Grace to Grace podcast. My name is Tyler Gordon and welcome everyone to the From Grace to Grace podcast. My name is Tyler Gordon and I am here with my co-host, sam, and we are doing yet another guest episode. This episode is called Ministering to the Marginalized. We're going to talk about ministering. We're going to talk about people in the church who may be on the margins and how we might be able to help them in their faith journey and things like that. I think I think it'll be an interesting episode. We have our guest here, jeff. Jeff is in our YSA ward and we I know Jeff from there. Sam is meeting, getting to know Jeff during this episode. So that's that's exciting. Jeff, do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself?

Jeffrey Field: 1:02

Yeah, in case you missed it, I'm Jeff. Don't know, I might say it a few more times, just because I got to top Tyler on saying my own name. True facts, but yeah, so I am in the YSA ward that Tyler attends. I have been in the ward for a long time now, probably about four years. Yeah, I am the temple and family history chair for the stake, not just for the ward. I started out in the ward but they uh, I guess I did such a good job. They bumped me up to stake pretty much two months after they gave me the calling in the ward or they were like get this guy out.

Tyler K. Gordon: 1:37

They're just like we can't do it. We can't deal with him anymore.

Jeffrey Field: 1:40

He's got too many ideas and none of them are good. Just get rid of it.

Tyler K. Gordon: 1:50

Oh, jeff, I don't know you did. You've done pretty good with the steak stuff. I've been impressed with the different initiatives that we've had, so that's awesome. So, jeff, are you going to school right now? Are you working full time?

Jeffrey Field: 1:57

I am. I'm doing both actually. So recently just switched my degree actually was the craziest thing, kind of a quick, fun little story. I was sitting in class one day and I was taking notes and studying my topic of sports medicine like I'd been studying for the past couple of years now and I just had this stupor of thought. It just came out of nowhere.

Jeffrey Field: 2:18

I was understanding everything that I was supposed to be learning and then, just out of nowhere, I just I had this stupor of thought and I didn't know what was going on. And then I just had this very, very brief but frightening prompting that said that I didn't belong there, straight up, that's just that's what the spirit said. It was like, yeah, you don't belong here. It was like, oh cool, well, do you want to tell me where I do belong, because that would be very helpful for me and because that would be very helpful for me. And so, yeah, I pretty much had nothing for the longest time. I would ask and I would pray about it, and I just had no idea what to do. Well, lo and behold, I've decided to start a degree in business.

Jeffrey Field: 2:56

Oh okay, that's a totally different degree Way off the margin, right, yeah, so business I decided because it's literally the easiest degree that I could possibly think of. So, to those of you who are listeners, that are, you know, business majors and you just got all offended by it, suck it up, you have a pretty easy degree.

Tyler K. Gordon: 3:14

Sheesh going after the business majors on the podcast. Can't wait for the comments on that one oh it'll be great.

Jeffrey Field: 3:20

Here I'll give you guys my number. You can duke it out. But no, it's a super, super easy degree, which is really helpful for me because I've never been the best at school.

Tyler K. Gordon: 3:30

You see, and it's probably I'm going to, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. It's probably super easy for you, but for like me who's computer science minded, I'd be like I'm completely lost. Maybe easy for you, but but definitely not easy for me. I couldn't do it.

Jeffrey Field: 3:47

I will say it definitely helps to be a people person, for sure, and to be able to communicate with people. But the craziest thing is, once I get the business degree, I still don't even want to go into anything business related.

Tyler K. Gordon: 3:58

Oh, do you know what you want to go into?

Jeffrey Field: 4:00

I do. I have recently decided that I'm going to pursue my dream career.

Tyler K. Gordon: 4:04

Which is.

Jeffrey Field: 4:05

I want to work for the OUR Operation Underground Railroad.

Tyler K. Gordon: 4:10

Oh, okay, all right Wow.

Jeffrey Field: 4:12

Yeah, crazy, right. So I want more than anything in the world to be the guy who gets those traffic kids out of those situations where they're just in bad, bad situations with bad, bad people. So that's currently what I'm pursuing, that is quite the path forward. Quite the path forward right, Completely different than what I was doing, but this is the most sure I've ever felt about a path.

Tyler K. Gordon: 4:35

I mean, obviously, with the topic that we're talking about today, talk about marginalized population. Those children are definitely part of that group that need to be ministered to, and what a way to minister to them, right? So anyway, sam, how are you today? I'm good, okay. Well, we will go ahead and get started. The first kind of part of the discussion that I wanted to talk about was specifically ministering, ministering, ministering, I know kind of it. It unfortunately for some people, whenever you say that word, people are like ew, no, I don't want to. Which?

Tyler K. Gordon: 5:12

is trauma response yeah, which is unfortunate because it's like one, it's like this great program in in the church that we do. But also I think it means more than just the program itself. It or at least it should, in my opinion. I don't know Any thoughts on that Ministering itself. Why do people have such a bad taste for ministering right now?

Jeffrey Field: 5:34

People aren't people people.

Sam Binns: 5:38

I think what's happening is we struggle to get beyond the talking about church-related things, but then when it comes time to take time out of our day and just go visit someone, it feels very laborious from looking from the start to the end of it, and so we don't want to be intrusive either. But we also know that it's something that we're asked to do, and we're asked to do it because it's what Jesus Christ would be doing if he was here. He would be going and talking to these people and seeing how they're doing, trying to be their friend.

Tyler K. Gordon: 6:13

Right. I also think that some people kind of get maybe a little bit too in their head about an assignment. I think suddenly when it's an assignment, it's like a chore I have to go do this.

Sam Binns: 6:24

I think suddenly when it's an assignment it's like a chore I have to go do this.

Tyler K. Gordon: 6:27

And now I'm not doing it. Yeah, exactly. Well, part of that is silly, but also true. I feel like people get in their heads about ministering and I'm not trying to call anyone out because I'm just as bad as the next person. I'm not the best at ministering, but I think we have to change the way that we think about what is ministering and and go beyond just ministering to our assigned people and minister to the ward, which would include our assigned people. So I don't know, jeff, any thoughts about ministering.

Jeffrey Field: 6:56

I just think there's a sense of tedium to it in people's minds. You know, I have to go out, I have to meet someone new. I mean, not everyone gets an opportunity to meet each other like Sam and I were. You know, we're talking in front of hundreds of people with each other. No, there's definitely a sense of tedium in the fact that you're just supposed to go out, you're supposed to meet someone new.

Jeffrey Field: 7:14

You know, maybe it's the awkward person in the ward who they just kind of end up sitting alone. And I mean, honestly, you should probably be talking to those people anyway in the first place. Those are the people who need support more than anything. But you know, it might also just be the fact like, oh, I don't really know this person, or I don't think I would have anything in common with this person. And so then, when you're assigned to actually go and talk to them and get to know them, you're like, oh, where would I start?

Jeffrey Field: 7:42

I have no idea, I don't know how to get in with this person, I don't know how to talk to this person, I don't know how to essentially be this person's friend, and so you kind of at least for me I start to think, okay, well, I could do X, y Z and then X Y Z. I realized maybe I should have started with A B C, and so then you go in your A, b, cc and then, either way you look at it, you're like man, that's just, that's too much work for sure, like I have no idea what I'm doing.

Tyler K. Gordon: 8:09

It's not worth it yeah, yeah, and I think it can also be hard, because I think exactly what you said, like people don't necessarily know exactly what they should be doing with home teaching. It was really easy because we were like, okay, go visit once a month and share the enzyme message from the first presidency, and it was the checkbox thing, whereas this it's no longer a checkbox thing, it's a hey, we do this thing and it's not an ABC kind of thing. So it becomes difficult to know exactly what you're supposed to be doing. But I think that's the beauty of it is that it isn't a checkbox thing. Go ahead.

Sam Binns: 8:50

I think what's difficult about it is it's getting to a higher, holier way of doing things, where you're stepping up from the Law of Moses checkbox style and you're going into a Law of Christ style, where he wants you to be doing what he would be doing rather than just checking a box, because that's not how the Savior works.

Tyler K. Gordon: 9:13

Right, right, I mean because people are more than just boxes. Right, people are people, which is a crazy concept, I know, but people have needs and desires and wants and we need to be conscious of those things, especially in a church like ours right, our church. We need to be conscious of the people themselves. I love this phrase that I've heard in institute that one of my institute professors says before each lesson. He says I want to teach people, not lessons, and I think that's so important with with ministering. We want to minister to people, not minister to a checkbox. So I think that's important, jeff, in terms of talk me through this and this might be this might be a crazy question, but tell me how temple and family history, especially in your position with the stake, how does that relate to ministering? Or why would temple and family history be vital to ministering, or why would ministering be vital to temple and family history?

Jeffrey Field: 10:20

You know, when I read that that was something you wanted me to talk about, I was like I got no clue. Those are two completely separate things. What do those have to correlate with? Now you want me to come up with something just off the top of my head where they correlate. But luckily, you know, I had some time to sit and ponder the question for a little bit. And I think the biggest thing is, you know, we have the YSA Temple Night right now. What better way to get to know somebody or to minister to somebody, than to just go up to them and be like hey, this Saturday, you know, I'm going to the YSA Temple Night. I don't know if you're planning on going, I don't know if you're already going with some friends, but me and some friends we're going to go. Would you like to come with me? Essentially, I think the temple is amazing at bringing people together.

Tyler K. Gordon: 11:07

So I think, kind of like I was saying, where you don't know where you would connect with that person, but the temple do all the work for you. Yeah, I think. I think that temple work requires sacrifice, right, it requires a sacrifice of your time. If you're going to do an endowment, an hour and a half to two hours of your time, sacrifice of your time. If you're going to do an endowment, an hour and a half to two hours of your time, that's a long time and I think if we are able to set that time aside for the temple, it teaches us lessons in setting aside time for ministering as well.

Tyler K. Gordon: 11:35

If you can set time aside for the temple, you can also learn the lesson of setting time aside consecrated time to do ministering to those of the people in your ward, those you're assigned to that kind of a thing as well, which I think is just, I don't know, it's an interesting concept. It's kind of the same thing of tithing, right, like, if you can set aside 10%, you'll also learn how to set aside savings for a rainy day or whatever it may be. So, jeff, any ministering stories that have had a significant impact, and it's okay, if you don't have any, we can cut it out, but I just figured we'd ask if, like, how's ministering?

Jeffrey Field: 12:15

You know I am terrible at ministering Fair enough.

Jeffrey Field: 12:20

I think I have had a different companion probably 18 different times since I've been in the ward. Most of my ministering companions I never even really got to know or didn't know at all. So yeah, I just I mean I wouldn't say I'm the best when it comes to ministering, but you know, ministering it's kind of like Sam was saying it's the higher law of home teaching. And let me tell you, when I think of home teaching I think of my dad, my dad when we were companions, when we were doing home teaching together. Oh man, could he home teach? He can still minister too, just as well. He just gets it. He knows what to do. We've had some incredible experiences, my dad and I working together in home teaching, and so I mean home teaching essentially is just ministering. So I guess any experiences I would have I would put towards when we were home teaching together, but just the love that you could feel for those families that my dad had for them.

Jeffrey Field: 13:17

I mean my dad's always said you know, ministering it's super, super easy. He's like I feel like everyone should have at least one point where they say you know, I for sure this year did ministering. And he's like everyone has a birthday right. How hard is it to figure out who you're supposed to be ministering to, to go up to them and be like, hey, what's your favorite candy, what's your favorite treat? You know, and find out, and then come over for their birthday and be like hey, no, you told me this was your favorite candy, just wanted to give this to you, wish you happy birthday. So that's something my dad has always been amazing at. He would always, whenever it was their birthday, he'd have some sort of candy ready or something their favorite treat, and he'd just come over and he'd hand it to them. Hey, happy birthday. And that was just one of the best ways that we could ever show our families or people that we were home teaching, that we cared about them, that we loved them, that we were thinking of them.

Jeffrey Field: 14:14

Birthday it's a special time, it's a special day for that person, and so when you take some time out of your day, it might not be quite so special to you it's not your birthday, it's not anyone in your immediate family's birthday but when you show that willingness, when you take the time out to just quickly drive over and be like, hey, here's a candy, happy birthday. It just did. It really shows that you want to make an effort, really shows that you want to make a connection, that you really care about that person and I mean any experience I could ever possibly list that I learned from my dad is just as similar to that man. You want to look at ministering? Just follow my dad's example. I love that. It's crazy. He's so talented when it comes to ministering.

Sam Binns: 14:55

It's interesting to think about how the effect that the small things have. We get that lesson in the Book of Mormon. But it's something that I'm learning more and more now of the power that those small things have, because those add up very, very quickly. When we like, for that example, somebody, you take them a candy, they know that you're someone that they can call on and so when something big does happen, you're ready for it and they have that connection with you. So the small things can add up to the big things.

Jeffrey Field: 15:32

but I was thinking about when Sam said that it was a lot like the higher law. Now, you know, have you ever noticed how, whenever we receive the higher law, it's whenever we feel like we're not ready to receive the higher law. It's always like, okay, I trust you with this higher law? You guys, you can do more now than you were doing before. And it's like man, I barely knew how to do it the first time, when it was the law of Moses. Now you want me to do it the law of Christ way. But I really think you know that's how he established all of his work, even was just by small and simple things. You know, if he's going to walk on water, he just takes it step by step. He's going to teach someone how to walk on water. He's just going to take it step by step. It's not just going to grab you and throw you in the middle of the ocean and say walk on water.

Tyler K. Gordon: 16:12

Yeah, I think it is the small things. I've been reading a book. It's called Proclaim Peace the Restoration's Answer to an Age of Conflict, and it's been a good book. But in kind of the last few chapters of the book he's talking about building Zion and he says, quote In aspiring to build Zion here and now, we should not get too heady. Peace building, or ministering, requires patience and humility. The city of Enoch took centuries to build and cultivate as peace building Zion.

Tyler K. Gordon: 16:41

Yes, jesus calls us to be salt and yeast, but we should remember not only the disproportionate influence of those substances but also their smallness. So it's just the small acts, those small acts that that that Jeff was Jeff was alluding to. What are those things? That that are the yeast right, that love in the lump we're going to jump into, maybe talking about those groups within our congregations who might be marginalized, as we kind of talked about in previous episodes. Back in episode seven, when we were talking with Katie, we kind of talked about people who might leave the church because they're on the margins of the cookie cutter. Quote unquote and don't quite fit, I don't know. Does anybody have some opening thoughts about marginalized individuals within our congregations?

Sam Binns: 17:36

I think where a lot of it will stem from is that people tend to look at the others around them and think everybody else is doing great with the commandments, and then look at themselves and see the issues that they have and marginalize themselves and disconnect from the members of the ward. So when when that happens, that's that's self-marginalization, of course, but then just culturally as well, the, the friendships that are made and the people would just get comfortable with who they're around because they're similar to them. They were there, at least they've found they're similar to them and I don't know. That's, that's just my beginning.

Tyler K. Gordon: 18:21

Thoughts might not be fully organized no, I, I, I respect that, I get that. I think I think that there is a real thing about, about self-marginalization I mean, as, as sam alluded to right there, there is like actual marginalization that happens. And then there's also this, this tinge ofinge of going in and doing a self evaluation and potentially isolating yourself because you perceive that there is some sort of wall there. I think oftentimes when we talk about marginalized groups, it can be a difficult subject for a lot of people.

Tyler K. Gordon: 18:55

Obviously, being someone who might be quote unquote a marginalized individual dealing with my same-sex attraction in the church, right, I feel like that might be a group who is in the margins of our congregations, in the margins of our chapel, who might just come in and sit down in the back and leave right after sacrament. So I think it's important to recognize that this can be a. So I think it's important to recognize that this can be a sensitive subject, but it's also important that it's not an unspoken about subject. I think talking about it with individuals and I think talking about it with individuals who might be part of that marginalized group is important, hearing them and saying, hey, what can we offer you as part of this collective Zion-building effort. What can we do? And I think it's important to remember that our God is the God of the marginalized, of the downtrodden, of those who might be on the fringes of society. He didn't dine with the Pharisees and Sadducees. He went and dined with the sinners and those who were on the fringe of society.

Sam Binns: 20:01

And this will apply to both self-marginalized people and the just natural marginalization that happens is everybody has something.

Sam Binns: 20:14

Everybody has some thing that they perceive that isn't in line with what they're hoping for. They feel like they're outside of the ideal and they're not taking the time to look at the truth of what's going on and see that they are in the best place to be, because the church is the hospital as it's been put. And so, for both the personal marginalization as well as the social marginalization, people need to remember the truth side of things and remember they really, truly aren't alone. It's not that little slogan that we hear all the time you're not alone. It's you're not alone. You really aren't. That's the truth of it, and the ideal is that and we're all focused on our personal improvements towards ourselves and becoming more like Christ, but the ideal would be that we're also reaching out to others, and that's the tough part and that's why ministering is so important is because if we are doing that, then those gaps between us, those perceived gaps, will fade and we'll have a much more tightly knit community of people who are different in many ways.

Tyler K. Gordon: 21:41

Yeah, I think Zion community means more than just like cookie cutter, Utah Latter-day Saint. I think it means which is cringy.

Sam Binns: 21:50

It's so cringy.

Tyler K. Gordon: 21:51

Agreed, agreed. It means more than that right. It's a global church. I'm taking this idea from another book that I've been reading, called Restoration God's Call to the 21st Century World, kind of been written by the same author of the other book, but he talks about the world right, and how oftentimes in the church we say the world and we say it like with a tone of disgust. We're like ugh the world. But we forget the scripture that says God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son. He loves all of us in where we're at and he's not going to leave us where we're at. He's going to take us somewhere higher. But he so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. And what did his son do? He ministered to the world, to those who weren't like him. And so to have someone who is the highest of all become lowly and almost like us, that shows us how we should be ministering to those around us.

Jeffrey Field: 22:55

Well, yeah, that was pretty much both what you guys said on the nail. You know, on the head of the nail, what I was thinking. Uh, essentially, first thing I was going to say it's hard to live in Utah. It's it's so hard to live in Utah Sometimes you have culture.

Jeffrey Field: 23:12

It's the purity culture. I mean. You have what I lovingly call the Utah bubble, where, uh, you talk to somebody and you tell them you're going to school and they ask you if you're going to BYU. Immediately, when they find out you're a member, oh, are you going to BYU? No, believe it or not, I'm not going to BYU.

Jeffrey Field: 23:28

Or you know, when you tell them like, oh yeah, I'm a member of the church, I live in Utah, and it's like, oh yeah, you and your neighbor and your neighbor's neighbor and your neighbor's neighbor's neighbor and your neighbor's dog, it's like, you know, it's like everyone. You all just kind of get shoved into the culture of what the church is supposed to look like. And then you have the people who they think they are the culture of what the church is supposed to look like. So you have people that are like, oh, if you don't look like this, if you don't act like this, if you don't believe these things, then you're not really a member, you're marginalized. And it was exactly what I was thinking is you know, in a way we're all marginalized.

Jeffrey Field: 24:09

We all have something you know. We may not have a complete family, we might have parents that got a divorce, we might be dealing with certain feelings, we might be having questions, we might be having thoughts against the church that you know. Maybe it's something we just can't help, maybe it's just something that pops up. One, because I guarantee you, if you've had that question, there's probably been at least 30 other people that have had the same exact question as you have, right, and so it's just, it's the fact that I would love if I could change Utah, if I could do one thing to change, utah, I'd get rid of the bubble.

Tyler K. Gordon: 25:00

No, I down the barrier, pull down the. You know, know, tear down that wall. Right in this book, in this restoration book, he talks about the fortress church. Right, there's our church. We retreated into the salt lake valley to get away from the world and and to basically create a bubble to protect ourselves in in the early years of the church, because we were being persecuted so, so harshly. But. But we have to realize that this is now a 21st century church. This isn't the 19th century anymore. We have to adapt and we have to change things. So that's my question is how do we break that bubble, how do we break out of that mold? What do we do? Because obviously this is a churchwide problem and this isn't something new that we're talking about. This has been around for a while, but I don't know what can I do, tyler Gordon, what can I go out and do today, in the next hour, in order to break this bubble or this mold?

Jeffrey Field: 25:52

You know that was one of my biggest problems when I was a missionary. I often remember writing emails to my family and talking to my parents on my P-Day saying you know, I hate Elderfield. I cannot stand him. Elderfield is cookie cutter Mormon. He goes to bed at an early time, he wakes up at an early time, he wears a white shirt and tie everywhere. He's talking to everyone always about Jesus Christ and I mean it's great, there's no problem to everyone always about Jesus Christ and I mean it's great, there's no problem talking to people about Jesus Christ. I highly recommend that we all do it any chance that we get right.

Jeffrey Field: 26:26

But my biggest problem was I wasn't doing it as me, I was doing it as Elderfield and I kind of had this slight identity crisis where it's like I don't know who I am anymore. I don't know where Jeffrey ends and where Elder Field begins anymore. I felt like I was a completely different person when I was Elder Field and so it was frightening for me. I was like I have no idea who I am. I have no idea what I'm doing. But my whole point to bringing this up is I think I could have done my work more efficiently oftentimes if I was doing my work as me. If I wasn't just that cookie cutter missionary who was teaching the same exact thing that some other missionary was teaching. If I was doing the same exact thing that other missionaries were doing, if I wasn't that representation of what the Utah bubble looks like.

Tyler K. Gordon: 27:13

Here's what I love about it Obviously, elderfield, we love Elderfield. Obviously, we love Jeffrey. I think that there's a beautiful Venn diagram of Jeffrey and Elderfield and there is some sort of overlap in there where you become Elder, jeffrey Field, and I think that we all have to figure out where that is right. Where is that happy medium where I'm a representative of Jesus Christ but I'm also myself? This is a global church. This is the church of Jesus Christ and we want to represent him well, but we also want to be ourselves. When we minister, we need to minister as ourselves. We need to minister as Christ would, but also as I would, as Sam would, as Jeff would. I think that's so important.

Jeffrey Field: 28:11

God's not asking just anybody to minister to that person. He's asking you specifically and you have a very specific set of skills. There's a's asking you specifically and you have very specific set of skills, you know, and there's a reason that you, specifically, are being asked to talk to this person. While you're supposed to connect with this person, you're supposed to use those things. You're supposed to use those talents, use those skills and go up to that person and be like hey, this is me. You know, this isn't someone who's following a handbook. This isn't someone who's going to sit down and I'm not going to show up. All right, we're going to start this lesson now. I hope you're paying attention. I hope you have a notebook ready. I'm going to ask questions.

Tyler K. Gordon: 28:48

Cutter, there are some good things that we can take from that, and it's not all bad, but it is important to recognize where there are areas that don't have to be there. I love what President Nelson has been doing with the handbook, and he's basically gone through and gutted the whole thing and said like, well, what are we doing with this? Why is this in here? This doesn't need to be in here. We're going to remove that. We're going to add this section. We're going to change this. I feel like there's an update to the handbook every other week now, which I love because we're an adaptive church and we may not adapt as quickly as people want us to, but we're adapting, which I love.

Jeffrey Field: 29:43

Well, you want to talk about a man that stays in the bubble but also bursts the bubble? Look no further than Nelson, right, president Nelson? He, I think it was like his very first conference talk he ever gave, when he was finally the prophet, right, he talked about ministering, actually, and he told a story of a guy who he was supposed to be home teaching at the time and who he was supposed to go up to and, you know, introduce to the church and introduce himself as a home teacher to. And he went up to the guy and the guy locked himself in his room right as President Nelson got there. And so what did President Nelson do? He went over, he knocks on the guy's door and instead of being like hey, I'm your home teacher, you know I'm here to share a lesson, would you mind coming out and listening to this lesson? He just he looked over and he saw that the guy had some old radio equipment.

Jeffrey Field: 30:30

It's like oh, I've always been fascinated with old radio equipment. Like I just I think it's super fascinating. He's like would you be willing to teach it to me sometime? Would you be willing to help me understand why this is so important to you? Help me understand what radio equipment is like. And then he said, you know I can't do it right now, I can't do it today, but could I schedule a time maybe to to come over and to to just talk about radio equipment with you, to learn about radio equipment.

Jeffrey Field: 30:57

And the guy you know it's like oh, this conversation went way different than I was expecting it to go, just like yeah, I guess that could be fine. And then you know, and I was expecting it to go, just like yeah, I guess that could be fine. And then you know he tells a story later on that the guy he became a stake president Like I mean you want to burst the bubble, but you also, I mean bubbles, it's there for protection as well. And I think we very easily and I think that's how you get rid of the bubble like we were saying is, we represent ourselves as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but we represent ourselves as ourselves.

Tyler K. Gordon: 31:28

Right, president Nelson is known to be said things like we embrace God's children compassionately and eliminate any prejudice, including racism, sexism, nationalism. I think you could put any ism in there. Right, we want to break down those walls of any types of ites. We don't need that in our community because that divides us. The time after Christ came right, there was no manner of ites, and that's what ends up dividing us. And so if we can see each other as instead as, instead of in these different ideas, but in more as children of God, I think that's what'll help us break down any type of prejudice.

Sam Binns: 32:14

And that's important too, because take you, for example yeah, it's important to remember the parts of you that are unique, but we can pull that identifier of a gay Latter-day Saint and just say he's a Latter-day Saint and that's pulling down any kind of perceptions about him, about Tyler. He's just a Latter-day Saint, just like I'm just a Latter-day Saint.

Tyler K. Gordon: 32:43

Yeah, well, and I think that there's a balance there, right, Because I think it's important to recognize those three main identities that President Nelson has talked about child of God, child of the covenant, disciple of Jesus Christ. But it's also important, as Jeff said, to be yourself, to be you, but don't let those identities be eclipsed by other identities.

Sam Binns: 33:06

Put them in order.

Tyler K. Gordon: 33:07

Yes, yep, I think that's so important I would definitely never suggest like take that identity away.

Sam Binns: 33:13

That's, that's not what I meant.

Tyler K. Gordon: 33:14

No, no, no, no, I, I, I know what you're saying, though right Like is is, we don't have to. If, if you decide that there's an identity that you don't want to identify with, necessarily I don't think, I don't think you have to take that with you. I think that you can. You can do what you want with with your own identity. Now, there are some identities that are harder to to escape than others, but I think I think those top three identities, as long as you have those within your perspective, I, I, I can. Just it brings me peace when I remember like, oh, that's right, I'm a child of God, and it just brings me peace to remember that. Any other thoughts on ministering to the marginalized?

Jeffrey Field: 33:58

Well, just, I was thinking about the whole isms thing that you brought up, right, and I just I had this thought that ism is essentially a stereotype, right? If it's like oh, you're this, so you probably act like this or you probably do this, you probably have these beliefs or these habits. And I think the reason why I hate the bubble so much is because it in itself is an ism right, and so how can I go in and show somebody that I'm not going to worry about their ism, right? And so how can I go in and show somebody that I'm not going to worry about their ism, or I'm not going to look at them just as their ism, if I'm going in displaying my own isms right, if I'm displaying my own stereotypes, or if I'm giving into the stereotypes of my own culture, it's hard to make a connection with somebody to help show them like, hey, you might be this, but that doesn't matter to me. All I really care about is I care about you. But how can I really show somebody that when I'm so focused on my own ism, when I'm so focused on my own stereotype, when I'm so focused on being the perfect minister that I don't even really think about the actual individual. If I'm sitting over there and I'm like, okay, I'm taking notes, I'm like I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this and it's going to be great, and this person, they're going to come to church every day and maybe nine years down the road they're going to become a prophet. I can't think like that. All I'm really thinking about is I just want to make a connection with this person. I don't care who this person is, I don't care what this person believes, I don't care things that they do. I don't care any stereotype about said person, because I don't care about any stereotype about me. I just want to go in.

Jeffrey Field: 35:35

I just I mean, it could be more or it could be just as casual as a conversation that you have with some random stranger on the bus, like, hey, how's it going? I'm so-and-so. How are you? Who are you? What do you like to do? Just get to know the person in a way that feels less artificial. And I think that's another huge problem that people have with ministering is it feels artificial to them. It feels like, like you were saying, it feels like an assignment, like, oh well, I have to do this now. It's a chore. But I think it also feels artificial when it's a chore. I think it feels like oh well, maybe I could actually be pretty good friends with this person. But I'm not really their friend because I'm just their minister. I'm just somebody who comes over and talks to them every once in a while, checks up on them, offers any service that I can for them. I'm just all. I have acquaintance wise with them is just minister ministry, you know.

Tyler K. Gordon: 36:28

Yeah, leave, leave, leave the baggage at the door.

Jeffrey Field: 36:31

Yeah, exactly.

Tyler K. Gordon: 36:32

You don't need to take baggage into it and and although you know, sometimes baggage is yours, right, and you can own it, you don't always have to carry it around with you. I think that's important, cool. Well, we are kind of getting to a point where we're going to start to wrap things up. I just wanted to get some final thoughts on this subject. Sam, anything in closing that you wanted to share?

Sam Binns: 36:56

I have a dream of that someday everybody would be able to see, just like for one day, everybody's personal pains and sadness and problems and worries and just get past small talk, get past the idiosyncrasies and just real talk all the time Cause that's my favorite thing, of course. Just just at least one day would be wonderful, and I feel like the connection between everyone would improve greatly.

Tyler K. Gordon: 37:36

Yeah, I think, getting down, I'll share my closing thoughts and then I'll ask you, jeff, any closing thoughts, and then I actually I do have a question for you that I want you to think about, no-transcript. That's why God is able to connect with us, each individually, is because he knows us as we are. He knows all of the good that we've done, all of the bad that we've done, all of the sad parts of our life, all of the hardships and the struggles, and more than that, jesus Christ has gone through those things and that's why he's able to connect with us on such a deep level and understand, from a humanistic perspective, those things. And that's why we want to minister like Jesus Christ would is because he is the ultimate minister. And, yeah, we're not able to perform the atonement and so we won't know exactly what that person's going through. But given the time, given the space, given the energy, you can get close with that individual and you may not know exactly what they're going through, but you can understand a lot more if you give the time, if you consecrate the time to do ministering, and especially ministering to those in your congregation who might not be ministered to or who might be overlooked.

Tyler K. Gordon: 39:16

I think that's another important thing is talk to those individuals, those individuals who aren't talked to. That's what Christ would do he would seek out the individual. He would seek out the one, the one person who might be sitting alone, the one person who may be an energetic person but may feel alone or feel just out of place. And so I think those are kind of my closing thoughts. In order to burst our bubble, we need to do some self-reflection and say, okay, where am I struggling? Okay, jeff, closing thoughts, and then a question to you.

Jeffrey Field: 39:53

Ministering doesn't just have to be an assignment, and I think that's another great way that we can really burst the bubble as far as what ministering is, or what exactly ministering is supposed to look like. Just because I'm assigned to this person, I mean, yeah, if you're assigned to them, you should probably be ministering is, or what exactly ministering is supposed to look like. Just because I'm assigned to this person, I mean, yeah, if you're assigned to them, you should probably be ministering to them. But that doesn't mean that that's the only person that you have to minister to. You can easily just go up to somebody in your congregation and be like, hey, how's it going? Like, you know, I don't know who your ministering assignment is, I don't know who's assigned to minister to you, but do you need anything? Like, are you doing? Okay, you know how is your life, what are you currently doing? You know, and just, I think when you show that you truly care about somebody, that's the pure Christ-like form of ministry. So, especially if you can do it in a way where it's to somebody you're not even assigned to and you can minister to them, it shows that this is something you're doing because you legitimately just want to do it because you actually want to care about a person, you actually want to go out of your way to minister to them and I just I think that's amazing. You know, just looking back on it, I think and this kind of also answers your question that you asked me but I think, looking back on it, ministering really isn't that hard.

Jeffrey Field: 41:08

You know how my ministering brothers ministered to me. It was hilarious. They asked me, they were like and luckily for me, they've been friends of mine for a long time now, like since high school. But you know how they went up to me and they're like how can we minister to you? It's like you guys want to do a movie night? Like, yeah, sure, whatever. So how do we minister to each other? Now? We schedule a night where we go, we watch a movie and then we get dinner from a different place. Our first night we did it. We literally sat and we watched anchorman of all things. And it was hilarious because we started with the prayer too and I was like, oh good, we're praying and now we're gonna go watch anchorman. But what did we do? We sat, we. We sat, we watched Anchorman, we laughed together, we had a good time together and I got to share one of my favorite restaurants with them. That was a memorable ministering experience for me that they got to share with me, and I think that that is how I want to start ministering to other people, whether it's people I'm assigned to or whether it's just to somebody else who I've maybe never even really talked to before, like it's just I mean.

Jeffrey Field: 42:09

And so to answer your question, you know, where have I seen the grace of God in my life? I'm going to say it's being on this podcast, especially this week. I think there are shocks, but I think I think there's an element of this podcast is very much directed by the spirit. You know, this is very much sanctioned by God. This is something you guys, you're doing an amazing work here. You're doing something incredible here, and when I look at it, you know I saw the topic that I got to pick from.

Jeffrey Field: 42:38

You gave me this one and one other topic and for some reason, this was the topic that stuck out to me and at first I was like, why couldn't you have given me a better topic? Like I am the worst person to ask about ministering. I don't know how to minister. I don't. I don't know what to do as far as ministering goes, but I think for me this has been a really eyeopening experience as to exactly what I can do to start changing my own ministering. It's been a learning experience for me as well, and so I look at it very similar to like, you know, when you're asked to give a talk and then they give you your topic and you know, the person who learns the most from a talk generally is the person who studied for said talk, and so I think I really get an opportunity now to take the words of what you both have said and also things that I've said that you know I didn't even plan on saying and just really incorporate them in my ministering now. It's just, it's an eye-opening experience for me.

Jeffrey Field: 43:29

You know I now feel like I understand how I can minister to others, how I can benefit from ministering and how I can turn it so it no longer because my biggest problem with ministering is exactly like you guys were saying how it feels like it's an assignment, it feels like it's a chore, and how I was saying it feels like it's artificial.

Jeffrey Field: 43:47

And I think I've really figured out a way to break that bubble of what ministering people suppose is supposed to look like versus how I can make ministering my own.

Jeffrey Field: 43:57

And I think that would be the only advice or encouragement that I would give to anybody who's listening is find a way to make ministering your own.

Jeffrey Field: 44:04

Just because it works for somebody doesn't mean that it works for you, and just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for somebody else. You know we're all different, we all have different interests and things that we're good at, and I think it's important that we turn ministering into a more personal effort, not just for the person who you're speaking to, not just for the person you're ministering to, but also for yourself. You know you just you want to make it a more personal experience, to kind of help get rid of that artificial factor of what exactly ministering is. So I'm very grateful that I was actually yeah, I got to be on this podcast and that I got to discuss this topic with you guys, because I have some thoughts now as to what I can do to improve my ministering. I have some thoughts of what I can do to change something that's kind of a weakness of mine and to make it better.

Tyler K. Gordon: 44:53

Well, thank you so much, Jeff, for coming on the podcast. Thank you, Sam, as always, for being here. I appreciate both of you. It's been amazing. So, Sam, you want to hit us with an outro real quick.

Sam Binns: 45:05

Yeah, so thank you very much for joining us for the podcast today. As for the call to action, a way you can help, at least for the podcast itself, is social media reviews. Sharing the episode with others around you. That could be a small thing that you could send to your friends and to others around you. That could be a small thing that you could send to your friends and to others around you to hopefully lift their day and help them see some of the things that you saw as well. Sharing learning can be something that brings joy and it can be a good way to minister that's it.

Tyler K. Gordon: 45:42

That's it. That's the end of the podcast. Okay, thank you all. So much for listening. We'll catch you in the next one. Bye.